Mating without pregnancy

[Josh P.]

Hello guys.

One of my females have successfully mated for three times during the past month. She is visibly ovulating but apparently not gravid yet. Is this normal or something's wrong? She is of good weight.

 

[tb144050]

My Leo, Rosie, finally laid her first clutch the other day (on Day 25, I think). But with her, I went through periods where I could not see 1 egg....then I would not be able to see the other. Finally she laid 2 eggs, but 1 was kinda small. I never really saw her eggs PUSHED to the belly and clearly "put out there"...probably because 1 was a bit small.

Perhaps your female's first clutch will be small and just isn't "pushed against the belly"?

 

[Josh P.]

Hard to say. :/ As of right now this female seems only ovulating as there is still a lot of pink.

 

[tb144050]

Check Rosie's pics for her final day (toward the end of the thread) before laying. It's the "ovulation to egglaying" post in "show off your leos". I was actually seeing alot of pink also.

How many days has it been since the 1st & 2nd mating?

 

[Josh P.]

A bit over a month.

 

[tb144050]

A bit over a month.

My 2 females (my only experience so far) layed on day 23 and day 25. I've been told this is a "good average." Another 7-10 days probably isn't too much of a stretch.

Some nice close photos with minimal white-belly-glare will help. I know you don't want to stress them, but checking that belly is necessary to check on her health.

 

[Samantha12]

I agree that maybe you just aren't able to see the eggs very well. If she is ovulating and you saw them mate, she should be gravid. Have you bred this male before to other females?

 

[Mantislover]

Do they need to mate to fertilize each pair of eggs or is one or matings enough for the season? Mantids need only one or two matings and that takes care of many oothecae (egg cases).

 

[tb144050]

Do they need to mate to fertilize each pair of eggs or is one or matings enough for the season? Mantids need only one or two matings and that takes care of many oothecae (egg cases).

One mating can be successful, but it doesn't quite "go the distance" or "fill up the tank", so a couple of later matings at random times is beneficial. Just like mantids I assume...?

 

[Mantislover]

Yes, just like mantids. Some dont need a male though to make babies! They are parthonogenic. I've heard some reptiles and/or lizards do that, what about geckos?

 

[staceyleigh]

Yes, just like mantids. Some dont need a male though to make babies! They are parthonogenic. I've heard some reptiles and/or lizards do that, what about geckos?

I have done quite a bit of research this year in Herpetology-as my youngest son is studying Herpetology for science, and I don't believe any geckos are parthonogenic. There are very few lizards-Komodo dragons being one, who are.
The gestation can vary quite a bit. I have 1 female who laid eggs after 24 days, and another who has laid after 15, then 14 (so much shorter gestation). If she is digging I would just be checking the lay box, and tank twice a day to be sure you don't miss anything.

 

[favrielle]

Actually, there are some parthenogenic gecko species. Mourning geckos, for example. I've also heard of cases of other geckos being capable of it, even though it is not their primary form of reproduction... leachianus is one.

 

[sheepherder]

My 2 females (my only experience so far) layed on day 23 and day 25. I've been told this is a "good average." Another 7-10 days probably isn't too much of a stretch.

Some nice close photos with minimal white-belly-glare will help. I know you don't want to stress them, but checking that belly is necessary to check on her health.

If that kind of stretch is a good average, then i'm super stoked!
My last female to ovulate was put with male at the beginning of her cycle and exactly 12 days later had her 1st clutch. Just a single egg, but still pretty quick.
It actually caught me completely off guard. The day before, i put her bk/ in with the male just to make sure he got the job done, and put her back the next day (24hrs later).
The following day (yesterday), I was re-hydrating the moist hide in the males enclosure... and almost smashed into the egg stuffed into the very far left corner. It surprised the hell out off me. ( i spray the moss well and then mix it in/around to even out moisture through box).

Another one of my females had her second clutch exactly 13 days apart.

 

[tb144050]

If that kind of stretch is a good average, then i'm super stoked!
My last female to ovulate was put with male at the beginning of her cycle and exactly 12 days later had her 1st clutch. Just a single egg, but still pretty quick.
...
Another one of my females had her second clutch exactly 13 days apart.

What kind of temps are you having on the cool & warm surface...and what are the ambient air temp? I have read that "warmer environment produces eggs faster". But to achieve 12day eggs, one user (on another forum) was in the tropics:

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"First, the females lays 2-4 weeks after copulating, usually the warmer the enviroment they are in is the faster they lay! I live in tropical Venezuela and they lay as soon as 12 days after copulating in my case...."
^^source: How long between mating and egg-laying for leopard geckos? - Page 3
=-----------------------------------------------------

I have or HAD a theory that some "first clutches" are faster because the ovulation had already progressed forward toward eggs BEFORE she mated... I don't know how my theory holds up in the scientific world when trying to explain "fast SECOND clutches." It makes me wonder if they start the next ovulation faster?....or if the first-clutch takes the longest??

---------------------------------
I've passed on my little bit of experience and even some theories.. Hope they helped.

 

[sheepherder]

I have a digital heat gun and check my temps often.
I have a vision rack, so its heated by a heat cable. I keep the probe for my hydrofarm temp controller in the bottom of the rack, in the second bay up on the right. I set it for 96 to compensate for the sterilite tub, which gives me 89-90f on the floor, aprox. 87f in the moist hide/egg box, and 80f in thre front / cool side.

The very top shelf runs between 91-94f on the floor, 87 in the hide, and 81-82f in the front / cool side, depending on ambient temps in the room which are kept between 70-76f (I live in northern ME.)
With a vision rack, you have to find a happy medium through't the rack and it's better to be a little warmer on the top than too cold on the bottom. That way, no part of the rack is below 90f.

So yeah, the top of the rack probably runs a little warmer than average... where it just so happens the 2 female's i mentioned are kept.

 

[tb144050]

The very top shelf runs between 91-94f on the floor, 87 in the hide, and 81-82f in the front / cool side, depending on ambient temps in the room which are kept between 70-76f.
.....

So yeah, the top of the rack probably runs a little warmer than average... where it just so happens the 2 female's i mentioned are kept.

Consistent results with the breeder's results in his similar climate/temps: Theory proven? Good info for people who want to speed up egg-production, as long as they don't go dangerously high on the temps. I suspect the biggest factor is the coolside being 80F+. If they can't "self-regulate" to drop below 80F body temp, they are probably "maintaining speed" instead of "slowing down" egg-production (on a 70-75F coolside).