Speak English

[Jeanne]

Did you here about the Sub shop in Philly that posted a sign on their window that said This Is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING 'SPEAK ENGLISH.' ", well they are now getting sued for it..... :main_huh: :main_thumbsdown: :main_angry:

I actually heard on the news on the radio this morning that they are getting sued, but in this article it says that some people may seek court action.

Heres a link to the article:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...7_genos09.html

How do you feel about this?

 

[ExcessiveHerps]

WOW That does seem pretty discriminative but to be sued for it!

 

[Jeanne]

I agree, it's rediculous

 

[Milwaukee Reptiles]

As a business owner, it's completly my right to discriminate based on language. I know a phone support center wouldn't hire me if I didn't speak english, so I would expect busiensses are giventhe same privledge. The fact that they are getting sued for it is complete BS.

 

[Jeanne]

I am sure that if this actually goes to court, that the business owner will win. If he doesn't win, that will be very very sad.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

I've never really heard of a case like this, and I have my doubts as to who would win. Remember - there is no official launguage in America! Depending on the state, they may or may not side with the business owner. Here in Illinois, it's illegal to not hire someone because they can't speak english. Eric's work has gotten into some trouble over that.

 

[Jeanne]

They are saying they won't hire them, all it says is to speak English when ordering...Thats all

 

[brandy101010]

What if they can't speak english? They will go hungry...

 

[CoolGeckos]

It is stupid too... American Sign Language (ASL) is an different format than english... People still judges its language and it makes it harder for deaf people to get job too because of the lanuage issues... Something, I don't like to see or hear this happen but it does often than a lot of people thinks... Reason-- my writing looks like I speaks english but really went to school learn it... English format is different than ASL-- For example- In English; What is your name? In ASL; What your name what? People still do push deaf people out just because of its lanuage "ASL". Something, a lot of deaf people struggles with being invoulded with hearing world but I am glad Reptile World is more open minded.

 

[Cryptly]

I wish more people would learn ASL. I'm not deaf, but I know ASL, and the plant managers where I work know I know it. Twice so far I've been called on to be an intrepter for a deaf person. I didn't mind it, but one time I felt bad for the person I was intrepting for. The plant was having a job fair (filling out applictations and doing interviews all on one day), and they had to call me into work to intrepret. The poor person ended up waiting an hour for me to get there, and all I could think was if somebody from HR knew ASL, he would've been in and out in less time.

 

[NewportGeckos]

I think that the owner of that store had the right to say what he did. It is his store to do as he wishes with. It's possible he had no bilingual employees and if it's just too hard to sell goods to someone who doesn't speak english, then I understand his position. Even if he did have a way to get past the language barrier, I don't think he should be sued because I don't find that discriminating against a particular race or group:inquisitive:

 

[Wizardlizards]

Okay two things, first I am from Philly, so I know the place. Lets get it straight Jeanne it is not a "sub shop", it is a Steak shop serving the world famous, often imitated but never duplicated, unbelievably delicous Cheese Steak!!!!!! Geno's Steaks is one the two "original" Steak shops in town.

Secondly as you might notice from my avatar, I support the owner, a man named Joe Vento. As a small business owner myself, I believe that I, like he has the right to determine the rules of the establishment. If you don't like it so be it, shop somewhere else. Genos, and its main competition across the street, Pats serve thousands of customers in a week. The have signs up instructing you how to order your sandwich. What kind of cheese (whiz, american, or provolone), wit or witout onions (yes I typed WIT), and if you want peppers, mushrooms etc. Believe it or not if you don't order quickly enough, or not make yourself clear they will yell "NEXT" over top of your shoulder to the next person in line. If you have ever seen the "Soup Nazi" on Seinfeld you can get the idea.

Now while this type of service may seem harsh, it is the reality of a Philly Steak shop, do it right and enjoy your steak. Don't and too bad. If you don't like it tough. In my opinion it is the same thing with his choice of serving or not serving food to someone who doesn't speak english. It will slow down the line, and therefore affect his business.

I may sound harsh here, but while we don't have an "official" language in this counntry, we are by FACT an English speaking nation. Every immigrant to this country prior to this current time learned english. I am a child of immigrants just like everyone else (my apologies to anyone of Native American descent). My ancestors were.....Italian, Irish, Scotch, French, German, and Native American. Every one of these people who immigrated to America learned to speak ENGLISH. EVERY SINGLE ONE, and they taught their children to speak english. I am not some Nativist who is looking to exclude immigrants. I believe anyone who wishes to immigrate to this country should do so legally, (thats another topic all together). But I beleive that any immigrant who comes here needs to assimilate and become a part of the American culture like all of our ancestors did.

I am sure this post will get a few responses, and I look forward to reading them.

 

[brandy101010]

I agree That everyone who immigrates to this country should learn english. Thats what everyone here speaks. I don't expect someone who just moved here to be able to speak perfect English and I don't hold it against them. Immigrates should have to take a mandatory english class when they move here. I think it is bad business and unethical to refuse to serve someone because they can't speak english. They may have the right to do it but I don't agree with it. But it's not my shop and I don't live in philly so I don't really care.

oh And I am native american

 

[Jeanne]

Tony,

I was wondering when you were gonna reply to this thread! In case you didn't notice, I agree with you, Joe has every right to do what he did.

Maybe this will help other people here with it.

Lets say you had a gecko up for sale for about $7, one person emails you about it in another language, and, you can't translate it. (No, you can't use the internet)

Another person emails you about it in perfect English.

The transaction has to take place within minutes. Who are you gonna sell to?

P.S. I am 1/4 Native American Indian, Abenaki Tribe. Shouldn't we have all learned the Native American Indian Language?

P.S. # 2 Can you send me one of those famous Philly Cheese Steaks

 

[CoolGeckos]

Hmmm... So are you saying that deaf people should speak "english" In fact, ASL was developed in america... Also making deaf people to "speak" english is hard and best way is them for learning ASL to improve commucation... So ASL is something you have to accpet when comes to deaf people... Not every single parent teaches exact english what about the deaf world... They are thaught ASL through deaf parents, deaf school and other many ways to learn ASL... You cannot always forces people to learn "speak" english 100%.... Within deaf people writing sure but not changing their sign launage... In my epxerince oral deaf people usually gets behind in education than the ones who learn information throughout sign language... Remeber America is more of melting pot with cultures and majority of hearing people in my experience are scared of deaf people or don't want them be "different" which is why they want them to be oral... Myself wish that hearing people wouldn't be not so scared of deaf people or judges then stereotype... I won't mind to bring into more disscusions about ideas of "speaking" english... So rethink about deaf people and others. How they can learn best or what fits best? Maybe harsh post but I think I made an point. BTW, english is second launage to most of deaf people.... Even to orals and sign lunguge are an real heart in most of deaf people. Just my thought.

 

[Jeanne]

Hey Preston,

You have it all wrong. The reason people get so mad is because the foreigners don't even try to learn english, they can learn to speak they are just too lazy to learn the language. If for some reason they can't learn it, then that is a different story.

That is what makes people angry.

We LOVE you Preston!!!!!:main_thumbsup:

 

[Wizardlizards]

P.S. I am 1/4 Native American Indian, Abenaki Tribe. Shouldn't we have all learned the Native American Indian Language?

P.S. # 2 Can you send me one of those famous Philly Cheese Steaks

Well there were many Native American languages, which one would you have chosen (don't say Abenaki, that would be biased )

And sure I would say an even trade of a Cheese Steak for a aptor???:main_rolleyes:

 

[Wizardlizards]

So rethink about deaf people and others. How they can learn best or what fits best?

Preston,
I don't think there can be a comparison with some one who is physically unable to speak due to a diasbility and someone who chooses not to learn a language. The majority of Immigrants today are unlike those of our ancestors. Most don't wish to assimilate or become part of American culture. Some one who uses ASL would in my opinion be different from a person who just chooses not to learn the language of the land. I am relatively sure that the owner of Geno's steaks would not deny you a sale because you are deaf.

I certainly did not mean for you to be offended, and I wish you the best. Hell if you ever come to Philly I will gladly buy you a cheese steak.

 

[Jeanne]

Well there were many Native American languages, which one would you have chosen (don't say Abenaki, that would be biased )

Ha Ha! You got me on that one

And sure I would say an even trade of a Cheese Steak for a aptor???:main_rolleyes:

:main_thumbsdown:

 

[M_surinamensis]

Interesting.

I can see arguments on both sides... and some of the reasoning behind them.

On the one hand, it's the right of a private business owner to refuse service although those "rights" start to dissapear as the business grows and can vary a great deal from place to place with what is and is not acceptable for them to use as a chriteria.

If a customer is unable to convey sufficient information to allow a business to help them, well... tough crap to the customer, they aren't getting whatever it is that they want. I'm only fluent in English and Bad English with the standard useless smattering of "Hello, I would like to by this newspaper, my name is Seamus, which way to the railway station, I have been robbed, can you direct me to the police station?" in a couple others and I have run into people who I simply could not communicate with due to a lack of common terms that would let them express a specific idea or occassionally accent and intonation. When I have run across it on either side of a service sort of issue with a financial transaction at the center, I'd take what I considered a reasonable amount of time to try and find words we both knew the meaning of and if they couldn't cover it... Well, one of us would apologize and that was that. Might have been a different thing if it had been a faster paced environment like a busy counter style restaurant where a certain volume of customers need to be dealt with in a certain frame of time or things get unpleasantly backed up.

Deaf people... People with handicaps in general... I am sick and tired of their egomaniacal whining. Not all of them of course, only a few who seem to feel that they are owed something above and beyond reasonable accomidation in the direction of whatever their handicap is. If you're deaf and old enough to be wandering around ordering food on your own- you KNOW you're deaf and you should take some personal responsibility to carry a pen and a piece of paper so that you can write out your damn order and hand it to whoever's taking it rather than expecting them to bend over backasswards and learn a new language just for you. If they know it to begin with; GREAT they have a valuable skill and it'll help them a lot. If it was a situation like that with a HR department for a company over a certain size; well, it'd just be a smart move on the part of the company to at the very least have some kind of TTY functionality... but to demand it? Well it's a good thing you can't hear or you might be shocked at the kinds of things that will come out of my mouth over THAT one. When it comes to the sickies and cripples, deaf people have the easiest time finding functional solutions to compensate for their limitations and at some point there's personal culpability if they're out and about and having problems.

Incidentally, a complete and total inability to pronounce an order in written english would be easily overcome by non-english speakers in the same manner as it could be for deaf people. Little personal responsibility in having the appropriate and simple tools required to write down what they want.

A sign like the one being discussed probably wasn't put into place as a disclaimer about the inability of the business to deal with customers in another language- for one thing, it was written in english- it sounds more like a gesture that was intended to make some kind of sideways point about immigration. Any "well they need to know what you want to order" kind of talk is really more a justification after the fact for a token inflamatory gesture of social discontent.

I'm inclined to agree that if someone is unable to communicate their needs to a supplier, they've only got as many tries as the supplier has patience or a desire for their business. Some people seem to be taking this a bit further than that though and expressing a dislike for large groups of people... where does one draw the line for that exactly? I'm asking this as an obvious hyperbolic example to further the discussion and NOT drawing a direct parallel... but why is it morally okay for a sub shop to refuse service to anyone with a thick accent but not morally okay for a country club to deny membership to black people? Why is it acceptable for foreign tourists to be made the subject of derision and ridicule when they go to buy a meal but not acceptable for a business to be inaccesible to someone in a wheelchair?

A lawsuit or court action over the whole thing is simply idiotic and if pressed for my opinion over the whole thing I'd have to say that I fall someplace around "I don't care" since I am not sympathetic to the "plight" of either side in a war over the ability to buy a steak bomb... but don't try to rationalize this as anything more or less than what it was. It's not hardline antagonistic hateful rhetoric discrimination against an opressed people... and it's absolutely not a reasonable and unbiased position being taken by a business for reasons of business.