Venomous TRUE or FALSE?

[dragonflyreptiles]

Ok since my dad has raised me to be terrified of all snakes Id want to do a TRUE or FALSE on the things I have been told since he stomped a baby snake in the ground over the weekend before I could get a stick and throw I into the woods. I was able to save the next baby but I hate that he killed the first one.

The one he killed as pure silver in color, the egg was about an 1" away and he claimed it was a newborn copperhead TRUE OR FALSE:



The other was solid black with a yellow ring around its neck and he claimed that yellow touches black kills Jack TRUE or FALSE:



Lots more to ask but figured Id start with those 2 questions.

Thanks in advance for helping me learn!

 

[Russ S]

the first one doesn't ring a bell, but cruise this site and look for it .. http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_NC/snakes/snakes.html


was this the second snake? http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_NC/snakes/Dia_pun.html
if so it's not venemous, if not maybe you will find it on the site above

 

[Gary Orner]

False on both accounts.

Solid Black with a yellow ring is not a coral......

Sorry Copper Heads have been known to lay the eggs but I believe that they hatch right then and there.

I highly highly dought it was a copper head

What is the location we are talking about

 

[silentjohn]

Copperheads give live birth. They are born in a little "sack" that they have to wiggle out of, but it's clear and soft. Don't think even a snakeaphob would confuse them with what most would call an "egg".
The second one sounds like a harmless ring neck snake, which is what Russ shows in the second link. Also your Dad has the "rhyme" colors mixed up, if it was yellow touches black, that would be a lot of harmless snakes, including the kingsnakes. There is one that is "red touching yellow, kill a fellow" the whole thing is actually "red touching black-friend of jack, red touching yellow kill a fellow", and variants to the theme, that is used to remember the coral snakes from other banded snakes, especially tricolors like mountain kingsnakes.

Notice; disclaimer, that rhyme only works for the coral snakes, vs "harmless" snakes here in the US. There are snakes, particularly South America, possibly even Mexico? where the colors are the opposite of the rhyme.

 

[Gary Orner]

Not sure what snake that is a live bearer that has laid eggs then It was nt an EGG"EGG" But the zoo reported it twice from two seperate females. Thought it was the copperhead. I know it is a north american viper though. I read it somewhere in one of my books. I will see if I can find it one day.

Also the coral snake color rhyme does not always work in the states either. The rhyme should never be used. IMHO

 

[Gary Orner]

Nevermind LMMFAO......

The paragraph said.

The zoo "thought" the Copperhead had laid eggs.

Then a few more paragraphs down it was found that it was a black Rat snake the eggs belonged too. Just happen that the balck rats were hid they found the eggs and the copperheads. LMAO.........

It was bothering me.

The book is an older one but talks about things zoos have down with some species.

Funny that I remembered it wrong

 

[Gregg M]

Sorry Copper Heads have been known to lay the eggs but I believe that they hatch right then and there.

:main_laugh: Gary, You should know better than that... All vipers give live birth... Did you get hit in the head or something???:stars: LOL

 

[Gary Orner]

No I have been reading lots of older books I recieved from a library. One is stories and stuff about zoos. I first answered the questions that all vipers are live birth. Then I remembered the chapter n this. Went back and edited then it bothered the hell ut of me and then went to see that I gofed and remembered wrong. lmao

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Lots of great info, I think the black one was for sure the ring snake and Im leaning towards this for the silver one:
http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_NC/snakes/Col_con.html

 

[nora]

black racers are quick and somewhat aggressive if caught in the wrong mood...lol but obviously harmless.. scott and i have a lil black racer ourselves and he's nasty towards me and likes to strike.. but only at me. =/

And yeah it sucks that you are scared of snakes (thanks to dad) have you even concidered looking into owning a snake Wendy?? Something small, docile and easy to handle like a corn or king snake of some sort or even a ball python.. i used to be scared of snakes til my ex convinced me to buy my first boa, and from there on out, my fear flew out the window and i got addicted to them.. lol

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

I actually have a baby ball python that I got from Paul Sage back in December. Im cool with him and he doesn't scare me lol

I had 2 adult carpet pythons for about a month and got freaked but the male really bad so they had to go live with Matt at Mgrepitles lol

The snakes outside are what really scare the crap out of me, I don't know enough about them to know what is dangerous and whats not since I was rasied that all snakes except black snakes are "horrible".

 

[Gary Orner]

99.9% of the time if you do not bother them they will not bother you. The other .01% is when we step on them or doing yard work and "bother them"

But I have yet to here a snake chase down and attack a person.

so no worries.

 

[The NY Gecko]

Black snakes are the only things that are safe probably because of the black rat snake. It eats mice and of course farmers want them around. And most of the snake a phobes are the ones that live in areas where there are lots of snakes and little around to learn about them. Fear over rational

 

[silentjohn]

Also the coral snake color rhyme does not always work in the states either. The rhyme should never be used. IMHO

examples?

 

[Russ S]

The best way to overcome an unreasonable fear of snakes would be to learn about them. There aren't usually too many different venemous snakes in any region, and you can learn to identify them fairly easily. If you are unsure, it's always best to leave the snake alone.

 

[Gregg M]

examples?

Well, he is right in saying that not all coral snakes are color coded... Well, not in South America anyway... In North America it is a pretty safe rule of thumb to go by...
Here are a few examples of corals that do not go by the color order rule...
Micrurus s. surinamensis
Micrurus putamayensis
Leptomicrurus scutiventris
Micrurus lemniscatus helleri

There are about 60 or so species of coral snake... It would be silly to think that red and yellow bands touch on all of them.... Some are not even tri colored and some are not even banded... That being said, I believe there are only 2 species of coral in the U.S. and both have red and yellow touching bands...

 

[wilomn]

The best way to overcome an unreasonable fear of snakes would be to learn about them. There aren't usually too many different venemous snakes in any region, and you can learn to identify them fairly easily. If you are unsure, it's always best to leave the snake alone.

No no no Russ, the best way to overcome your fear is to eat that which you are afraid of.

Didn't you know that?

 

[M_surinamensis]

Well, he is right in saying that not all coral snakes are color coded... Well, not in South America anyway... In North America it is a pretty safe rule of thumb to go by...
Here are a few examples of corals that do not go by the color order rule...
Micrurus s. surinamensis
Micrurus putamayensis
Leptomicrurus scutiventris
Micrurus lemniscatus helleri

There are about 60 or so species of coral snake... It would be silly to think that red and yellow bands touch on all of them.... Some are not even tri colored and some are not even banded... That being said, I believe there are only 2 species of coral in the U.S. and both have red and yellow touching bands...

But... there are pattern abberations within North American corals too, melanistic animals crop up every so often and completely and utterly defy any rhyming, other pigment and pattern mutations are certainly possible...

Plus the "kill a fellow" part suggests that shovel noses and a few oddball tricolor thayeri are venomous when that is very much so not the case.

The rhyme is garbage, here and anywhere else. I definitley like the "If you're not sure of what it is, leave it alone or treat it as venomous" bit.

 

[silentjohn]

But... there are pattern abberations within North American corals too, melanistic animals crop up every so often and completely and utterly defy any rhyming, other pigment and pattern mutations are certainly possible...

Plus the "kill a fellow" part suggests that shovel noses and a few oddball tricolor thayeri are venomous when that is very much so not the case.

The rhyme is garbage, here and anywhere else. I definitley like the "If you're not sure of what it is, leave it alone or treat it as venomous" bit.

It's still an easy way for a novice to remember. I don't walk around the mall with a sign saying such, as it is out of context, or out of "interested" parties. Even using your examples (though I stated US only, RE thayeri) the novice snake person is still safe as they aren't mistakenly catching a venomous snake, they are only missing out on catching a harmless snake.

 

[M_surinamensis]

This part was important too.

But... there are pattern abberations within North American corals too, melanistic animals crop up every so often and completely and utterly defy any rhyming, other pigment and pattern mutations are certainly possible...