This i not pos! Question for Genetic freaks

[supperl]

Okkaaay a friend of mine asked me something.
male:

female is one of these but not known which one:

This groupe is setup since 3-4 years now and the male is a SS from Steven Sykes.Until last week only Mack and Mack Super Snows hatched.

And now she came home from holidays and found this pair in the bator:

Their is no other male!
When the new male came in 3 weeks ago the eggs were already in the bator and the new male hasn´t been breed to any female yet due to quarantine time so these eggs are only pos from the groupe above cause their is no other female who is laying eggs and all eggs layed yet are from this over 3-4 year exesting groupe!

No what happend here????

Thanks for the Help!

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

That's insane. I've never seen anything like that before.

 

[thestack510]

That is really strange. I can't think of a good explanation at all. I would guess they came from either the first or third female posted by the looks of them, but that doesn't explain why they are not snows. I'm stumped.

 

[LG-Geckos]

... I have no idea...
Since father is SS all babies from every female must be Snow but...:main_huh:
Maybe he misslabeled the eggs?
Nice Pattern

 

[supperl]

Leon no way cause their are only 2 males at home and one came in on the last terraristika show and is in quarantine.
This groupe is together for 3-4years so this is not pos
What could have happened here?

 

[ajveachster]

The geckos are doing their best to prove to us humans that we don't know everything.

 

[supperl]

Angelicka your right
if these are macks she has the most yellowish Macks ever hatched^^

 

[latshki]

asexual reproduction ?:main_huh:

 

[Lordoftheswarms]

What morph is this female? I have a male just like it!

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

I would go for a spontaneous Mutation. This can happen from time to time in populations.

I would say eighter the yellow colour just "covers" the Snow pattern, or the snow- Gene is completely blocked by spontaneous Mutation.

The only way to proove it out is to keep them and testbreed..thats what I would do.
/Rebecca

 

[combadao]

Putting human error aside...

I find it hard to believe in a spontaneous mutation on the siblings because the two siblings are alike (but who knows). But perhaps on one of the females. One of them could have a genotype that does not quite work with mack?

Did all the females laid eggs before?

I think there is no parthenogenesis in leos, or at least, I've never seen nothing about it.

 

[Baoh]

If what details have been presented are correct-

Possibility 1:

During the process of replication, early on in the zygotic/post-zygotic development, there was probably an error or errors. At least one error rendered the bulk, if not all, of the resultant cells possessing a nonfunctional copy of the gene that codes for the MS trait. That allowed the wild type allele to express, the effects of which are now visually apparent.

This could also be a related matter of the sire's germ cell line (cells of Sertoli). It's possible that one of his germ cells, giving rise to his sperm, has mutated. Thus, a very, very, very tiny fraction of sperm he creates has an inability to contribute a correct copy of the MS gene. So, in terms of statistics, that baby would have hit its own version of a genetic jackpot to avoid being a Mack Snow, where the end result is very similar to what happened in the description in the paragraph before this one.

Possibility 2:

Differential expression. I doubt this is the case here, as this phenomenon usually presents more as a variation of some degree of expression instead of a lack of expression. Think of Eclipse eyes, where some are full, some partial, and some fade to the point where there's only the slightest tint "muddling" in the corner or no way to tell at all besides offspring.

Possibility 3:

Has the sire come from only MS X MS, MS x MSS, or MSS x MSS lines? If there's some other sort of Snow and he's just one of those statistically less likely Super Snow results, I could see the possibility, but I doubt this due to the history of offspring you described, and so discount it.

Possibility 4:

Somebody is mistaken about animal contact at some point in history of ownership. Retained sperm or a recent mistake where somebody "figured" nothing could have happened.

-------------------------------------------------------
In order of likelihood, based on what was described and knowing a bit about human nature, I'd go with 4, then 1, then 2 or 3.

That said, if 1 occurred, the baby should be grown and bred with normals and Mack Snows. If only a portion of the copy of the gene is defective, you might be able to get something like a yellow Mack Super Snow project out of it, all jokes of yellow snow aside. He also might be able to yield typical Super Snows if another completely intact copy is involved along with his partial contribution. If the gene copy it carries is entirely nonfunctional, though, it won't matter at all and will be a dead end in terms of project development.

 

[combadao]

Baoh, great post, but do you find possibility 1 statistically relevant when you have two siblings very similar?

 

[Baoh]

Baoh, great post, but do you find possibility 1 statistically relevant when you have two siblings very similar?

I find 1 statistically improbable, but possible. It's possibly a matter of density of sperm per unit volume upon initial exposure of the ova, as the germ cell will produce multiple sperm cells. I find 4 most probable. It's really unfortunate that the owner does not keep better track of the parents.

Again, 4 is the one I would believe before all others.

 

[combadao]

Thanks Baoh, I think everyone would believe first on the 4th but it would be cool to be some other thing, for us to see the results in near future.

 

[supperl]

Thats a great post and I think I haven´t understood #1 very well.
As for what I know the female(at #4) would have had to retain sperm for around 3 or more years is somethign like that even pos.?
I personally would love the idea of a total yellow MSS^^ but maybe it is just a defect or so I dunno.
On the last thing you wrote could it be that a CO-Dom trait becomes rezessive on some way? Somehow a het MSS ?

 

[ajveachster]

In what Baoh posted if I am understanding scenario #1 correctly that means this could happen again with the same male, right? If something has gone awry so that he is now producing sperm that is missing one of the genes necessary to produce the mack snow trait, there is a possibility that future offspring could also be something other than snows. If that is the case to prove it out would you want to breed him to something that is recessive such as a visual albino, and see if it produces something other than a snow again? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. I am finding this to be a great learning opportunity.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

it will be very interesting to see if the babies in question produce mack snows or something else....

 

[supperl]

I would love to see them produce yello MSS

 

[paulnj]

I am lost.

What was the male with the group last season ?