Iran

[The NY Gecko]

How many of you think that putting feet on the ground in Iran is inevitable? I had this same discussion on another discussion board. I think that it will happen eventually.


I think that if, IF, the US does go in and they do want to be successful, it cannot be handled the same way as Iraq. Our military is not designed as an occupying and rebuilding force.


Basically, the entire operation would be us removing the government in power and allowing the people to rebuild. The difference with Iran over Iraq is the the people in Iran. A majority of them have experience western culture and prefer it over the current regime.

 

[malt_geckos]

Before I throw my two cents into this, I think I should clear something up that I really feel is true: one of the reasons we are in Iraq now is because we had crummy intel. Obvious enough. One of the reasons we had such crummy intel was because Clinton imposed massive budget cuts on intelligence spending. Contrary to the popular belief that it was just because Bush was an idiot. With that in mind, I will continue.

I honestly believe that putting boots on the ground is avoidable. Will we avoid it? Who knows. More UN weapon inspectors are being sent in, because, well, we see how well that worked last time :wall: (I really REALLY don't like the UN). So it certainly seems like we are headed down that same road again. However, the budget for intelligence has been increased, so again, who knows?

As you said, the majority of Iranians have experienced western culture prefer it over their oppressive one. Which means their society is teetering, and all it needs is a little nudge to push it over. Thats the kind of thing our CIA and to a certain extent, Delta Force, guys do best.

A change in the government must come from the people being governed (thats why I like our constitution). But thats just me thinking...

Matt

 

[Grinning Geckos]

I won't be surprised if we do, but I SERIOUSLY hope we don't. I'm starting to forget what peace time is like.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I think North Korea is a bigger threat than Iran.

Whatever... a lot is going to depend on who becomes the President in the next election.

On a personal note, my father spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, and was a decorated veteran of the Korean war and served 2 tours in Viet Nam. We played with real stuff when we played 'army' and camped in tents stamped with "USMC" on them. We lived on Marine bases, and grew up with war as a part of life all around us.

I grew up in the 50's when everyone was terrified of commies and built bomb shelters in their back yards in case Russia decided to nuke us. It didn't happen.

I also grew up in the 60's during Viet Nam, when the government tried to convince us that it was better to fight communism over there and here on our own soil. We lost.

Don't get me wrong. I am a VERY patriotic American. But I guess since I was an anti-war hippie in the late 60's and early 70's I feel a little differently than most of you do. Why is the USA so arrogant that we think our lifestyle should be enforced on the rest of the world?

I think that if there are countries that don't like us, and MANY don't, that we should just get out of there are cut off all financial support for them. We spend billions and billions of dollars in aid to these countries that could be spent on developing alternate fuel sources so we wouldn't need their petroleum resources... which IMO is the 'real' reason we are over there. They've been fighting amongst themselves for thousands of years, and there is nothing we can do to change that.

Just my $.02.

 

[dprince]

I couldn't agree with you more, Marcia. :main_thumbsup:

 

[SteveB]

I think China is a bigger threat to us, personally, but the propaganda machine is already rolling on that one. The health of our economy is a far greater threat than anything else right now.

As far as the middle east goes, I believe their are many nations that are willing to plot against the united states, and that it is entirely possible that we will have to involve our soldiers in this battle.

 

[malt_geckos]

Marcia-I also agree with you 100%. There are many countries that disagree with the way we live. So what? We should let them deal with their own problems (we have plenty of our own). Thats one of the reasons I don't really care for the UN.

Steve-I agree with you also. China is an enormous threat. Especially with them hacking a couple networks within the Pentagon a month or so ago. They make me nervous. Did you know that they have a "Net Force"? Similar to our Airforce, Navy, etc. but dedicated to fighting the online war. Currently one of their projects is developing a network of computers to launch attacks on American carrier groups in the Pacific. Just something to help you guys sleep easier at night.

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

Honestly, I hope we don't go into Iran. I'm only sixteen years old and I've already seen enough war in my lifetime to be sick of it. When I was little I never knew what war or even terrorism was. It was something that was as foreign to me as the names of middle eastern countries. Now things are so different though, and for the sake of future generations I hope this war stops.

I have cousins who are marines, one of which just got sent to Iraq. He has a wife and two daughters (one of which requires frequent medical attention due to a disorder) that are now alone here on this soil. Being from a marine family, I do support my cousins and all of my relatives who are in the military, but that doesn't mean I support this "mission" that we're trying to accomplish.

There will always be "threats" to this country, and threats to the world. Nothing is going to change that, and i think it's time we realized that. War and invasion aren't always answers...

But honestly Iran isn't even that much of a threat when compared to others that were mentioned in this topic already.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that humanity fears what it does not understand. In this case, we do not understand each other.

 

[The NY Gecko]

One of the primary reasons that leads me to believe an invasion of SOME sort in Iran is inevitable is some intelligence that has pointed to supplies coming from Iran aiding militant groups in Iraq. I doubt it's anything solid, but it's probable. The Aeitola hates the U.S., so of course he's going to do anything he can to help someone else blow up a few more troops.


The middle east is the center of the current administrations attention. It's where the money's at. Sad, but true. Corruption is rampant in many parts of our government. It's sick to think about but somewhere deep inside most Americans know it's true. The fact that soldiers may be dieing so that the president and a few of his buddies can make a quick buck erks my chain.

But hey, we elected him into office.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Corruption is rampant in many parts of our government. It's sick to think about but somewhere deep inside most Americans know it's true. The fact that soldiers may be dieing so that the president and a few of his buddies can make a quick buck erks my chain.

Corruption is exponentially worse in most foreign governments, and being born in the USA is truly a blessing for every single one of us. I honestly don't think our President or any of his buddies are earning a quick buck over our troops dying in the Middle East. What on earth makes you say that, Tom?

 

[paulnj]

I must first say that I have many relatives that served in past wars and even more friend who are serving or have served in recent "wars".

I am behind our troops 110% anywhere they are sent! But I HATE the fact that we are in well over 40 countries right now being world police. Whether it be public or not, that's the way it is and it just plain wrong in my opinion to force one's views or way of life on others.

I just want to know why we can have the capability to wipe out this planet, but it isn't ok for others? That's like a parent who smokes telling their grown child it's not ok to smoke

 

[The NY Gecko]

I don't have alot of time right now, but I will say this.



Bush and many of his friends do have investments in over seas oil operations, including the middle east.

 

[dprince]

You aren't just whistling dixie. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Bush and many of his friends do have investments in over seas oil operations, including the middle east.

This is true. That's why I said this in an earlier post:

I think that if there are countries that don't like us, and MANY don't, that we should just get out of there are cut off all financial support for them. We spend billions and billions of dollars in aid to these countries that could be spent on developing alternate fuel sources so we wouldn't need their petroleum resources... which IMO is the 'real' reason we are over there.

But, I still do not believe as you said "the fact that soldiers may be dieing so that the president and a few of his buddies can make a quick buck" is the case. It is MUCH more complicated than that. It's also about power and control, which includes money, and seems to be our country's main objective. Isn't that why Middle Eastern countries hate us so much?

 

[marula]

Don't get me wrong. I am a VERY patriotic American. But I guess since I was an anti-war hippie in the late 60's and early 70's I feel a little differently than most of you do. Why is the USA so arrogant that we think our lifestyle should be enforced on the rest of the world?

I think that if there are countries that don't like us, and MANY don't

this is the point..and yes, many country don't like USA, but is something regarding your government actions, not "americans"
many poeple around the world be wrong when they think that americans = USA government actions
i think that the domocracy need to be an internal country choice..is impossible force a country (or a group of people) to be and think "democratic"
we are at this point (USA and europe) because we have a ton of year of politic hystory (and wars) behind us.
i "accept" to force a situation when people inside the nation whant change something...but the changing need to start from them, not from others outside the country and the problem...

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Suggested listening = BYOB by System of a Down :main_yes:

I'd really thoroughly enjoy seeing "Dubbya" on CNN totin' an M16! :main_thumbsup: Especially if his investments are so important to him!

 

[SteveB]

I love SOAD, but I'd hardly call them an unbiased source

We wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for events that happened during Clinton's administration.

 

[paulnj]

Before that Steve, but no need to debate the issue.

 

[SteveB]

Well yes... but 9/11 is on Clinton's hands and Bush's response to 9/11 has set the course for continued conflict in the near future.

I support Bush. I didn't vote for him the first time around but I damn sure did the second.


I agree that we need to put more of our efforts into improving the US and less into policing the world, however our economy is linked so strongly to that of the rest of the world that is is in our best interest to maintain relationships that benefit our economy.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

I agree that we need to put more of our efforts into improving the US and less into policing the world, however our economy is linked so strongly to that of the rest of the world that is is in our best interest to maintain relationships that benefit our economy.

I totally agree with this as well, I do support the president, I did vote for him as well, but he has many faults as I well know, as does most presidents, there is no way you can please a whole nation, you are going to have approximately half of the nation against you no matter what, I am personally sick of political parties, I wish the vote was just for the person, that way people do not make up there minds on who they are going to vote for or write someone off simply because they are represented by a elephant or a donkey. Again, I disagree with many things Dubya has done, he isn't perfect by far, but I also think some good things have been done in his administration as well.